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2nd of October 2009 | 13:38 GMT | Bogdan Popa
Four Dead Due to Toyota Stuck Accelerator Pedal
STORY HIGHLIGHTS:
- Four people died due to a Lexus glitch
- The accelerator pedal got stuck in the floor mat
- 3.8 million cars are affected by the glitch
![Click to enlarge [Four Dead Due to Toyota Stuck Accelerator Pedal - pic 1]](http://www.autoevolution.com/images/news/four-dead-due-to-toyota-stuck-accelerator-pedal-thumb-11598_1.jpg) |
The short story so far: the accelerator pedal on selected Toyota or Lexus models could get stuck in the floor mat, thus continuing accelerating the vehicle. It would be very difficult to brake if such a scenario occurs, Toyota said in a release yesterday.
A story published by timesheraldonline.com reveals that the crash that took place on August 28 near San Diego and killed four people. At the first glimpse, the main cause of the accident is a stuck accelerator pedal. Former Vallejo resident Chris Lastrella, 38, his sister Cleofe, 45, her husband, 45-year-old Mark Saylor, and their 13-year-old daughter, Mahala, died in the accident.
Toyota's president Akio Toyota had nothing to say but that he feels sorry for the accident... “We would like to pay our deepest condolences for the loss of four precious lives,” Toyoda said. “Customers who chose Toyota and Lexus cars because those brands are safe and secure are now beset with anxiety. I regret and apologize for this development."
Meanwhile, Toyota is working with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to issue a recall and fix this apparently minor-but-deadly glitch. No less than 3.8 million cars are affected by the problem. Before the Japanese manufacturer rolls out the full recall information, you'd better remove the floor mats entirely...
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04.10.2009 | 15:10 GMT
Two or more incidents like this...customer could lose their trust in toyota...
04.10.2009 | 15:10 GMT
Two or more incident like this...customer could lose their trust in toyota...
08.10.2009 | 21:49 GMT
A simple shut-down of the engine then slowly working your way to the shoulder would mitigate the danger in the future:)
11.10.2009 | 20:26 GMT
Mat causing the stuck Toyota (Lexus) accelerator? Hardly! This is yet another way for Toyota to blame the owner. Is there any major vehicle defect where Toyota will not blame the owner? Take a look at the "Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Engine Oil Sludge" online petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html. There are over 3,000 petition signatories already yet Toyota says that only 3,200 people had the sludge problem? Gross underestimation? Of course!
Toyota's major safety issues are being blamed on the drivers of its vehicles! This is a low blow by a company! Talk to the owners who have experienced non-deployment of the Toyota air bags (if they are not DEAD!) and see what they have to say about safety issues in Toyotas!
Take a look at the YouTube video entitled "Toyota Engine Oil Sludge" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs7WI2s-CVw which has been up for only a couple of months but has gotten almost 3,000 views. Go to the "Toyota Oil Gel" web site at http://www.toyotaoilgel.com to see what one Toyota owner has put together.
Next, read http://www.uc2.blogspot.com to fine out how one Toyota dealership treats an owner who wished to exercise his freedom of speech rights. Name-calling, flattening of tires, threats, and even attempts to run over the protesting Toyota owner are just some of this Toyota dealerships tricks to dealing with a dissatisfied customer!
Toyota---SHAME on you for trying to once again incriminate the Toyota owners---and DEAD ones at that!! You need to confess about your quality issues and resolve the current and former issues that Toyota owners had had to face over the last few years!! Stop the facade---stop the blame game---stop the FRAUD!!
04.11.2009 | 17:59 GMT
Never Shut down engine!! you end up loosing power brakes and Steering.
Put car in NEUTRAL and apply brakes to come to a stop.
04.11.2009 | 18:08 GMT
The Nightline piece on Toyota was very interesting. The "fly by wire" throttle controls should be looked into more carefully. I have a Tacoma and have had issues with TPS "Throttle Position Sensor". The unit shows no fault during testing but CEL "Check Engine Light" comes on due to TPS going to error mode only providing 20% power limit. I've had the TPS checked with a fine tooth comb and can find problem.. The combination of sensors and computer controls. Like my computer at home... just can't figure out why it locks up..
05.11.2009 | 03:41 GMT
I actually had this happen to me when I owned a camery. It was older than the "affected models" but it makes sense now. I was on the highway and had my car accel on me without even touching the pedal. Eventually I braked hard enough to get it down to 5mph and hit the e brake and parked. Good call on neutral...that woulda been better.
07.11.2009 | 18:02 GMT
What year was the Camry owned by person who said "It was older than the affected models but it makes sense now."
29.11.2009 | 21:44 GMT
While I haven't been following this story especially closely, and while it may be too soon for a detailed analysis of this accident to be produced (if any such thing will occur), I can't help but wonder why an off-duty CHP officer, presumably a well-trained driver, i.e., a driver with above average skills, would not have the presence of mind in such a situation to shift to neutral and brake. As I recall, if not mistaken, there was enough time for a passenger talking on a cell phone to tell the call's recipient what was happening. I don't mean to blame, I just want to know more about the circumstances (it could happen to me someday), how this experienced driver's options became limited to attempting to steer out of the problem. Was there so little time to react, even in heavy traffic at high speed? I probably wouldn't be asking this if the driver hadn't been a professional motor vehicle operator.
And, had this been an electronic ("fly-by-wire") accelerator malfunction, personally--and I wouldn't recommend this technique to everyone--I might try quickly (without killing the engine) toggling the ignition to off and back on in hopes of rebooting the engine's computer, after shifting to neutral--while anticipating loss of PS and PB if there were to be a longer interruption of engine power, and maintaining full control--of course. Steering lock systems are designed to engage only when shifted into Park with automatic transmissions, and so more care and perhaps some practice is required with manual transmission systems. Of course, the best technique would be to pull safely out of traffic in neutral before attempting the re-boot.
I've made my livelihood for more than 20 years as a pilot, and had this accident been treated like an airplane crash, drivers--like pilots--would be discussing and analyzing the causes and circumstances of this accident so as to prevent its future occurrence. A runaway engine shouldn't cause one to crash a car, at least not one driven by such an experienced driver. I'd like to know more, and so I wonder if there will be a report similar to what the NTSB would produce following an air crash.
02.12.2009 | 04:04 GMT
No Toyota or Lexis has enough horsepower to overpower its brakes. Simply applying the brakes will stop the car, albeit in a slightly longer distance than normal. As others have said, shifting into neutral will solve the problem entirely.
If you doubt what I say, simply drive your own car at a speed of 50 mph, or whatever speed you wish, on a vacant road and apply the accelerator pedal and brake pedal full force at the same time. The car will simply stop.
Try it. If the prospect frightens you, try it at 10 mph. You'll see that I'm right. There is something very wrong with the reported story.
03.12.2009 | 04:38 GMT
I agree that Toyotas do not have enough horsepower to overpower its brakes, however when this happened on our 2005 Camry the anti-lock feature on brakes engaged although the tires weren't skidding. This greatly reduced the braking to almost nothing as the throttle opened up.
01.01.2010 | 01:55 GMT
In 2005, I had the same thing happen to me. The accelerator on my Toyota Rav4L went crazy and I shot like a rocket across a parking lot and struck an office building! There were skid marks on the parking lot pavement from where my Toyota launched. My Toyota as well as the front of the office building was demolished. Witnesses backed my story. There was not enough time to shift to neutral and slow the vehicle to a stop. This entire event was over in matter of seconds. I suffered major injuries. Toyota ignored the whole thing. Maybe others would be alive if Toyota had taken this matter seriously at the time.
11.01.2010 | 00:25 GMT
Shutting off the engine will NOT cause a loss of steering or brakes. The steering will get stiff and the brakes will require considerable pressure but they WILL still work. That said, bumping the transmission into neutral is the preferred action. This loss of life is tragic and very sad but perhaps indicates a serious inadequacy in driver training. Anyone driving a car should know what to do if the accelerator sticks, just like knowing how to steer out of skid. There is no reason for a tragedy like this.
22.01.2010 | 00:35 GMT
We had an acceleration incident in our Tacoma after the floormat was "fixed". Toyota Canada says there is no problem with the truck and insists we take it back as is. The dealer says he is "pretty sure" the vehicle is safe.
We went from Loving Toyota to scared to drive their product.
25.01.2010 | 17:03 GMT
We got a 2009 Corolla. My wife went to the doc's office and as she was braking and pulling into a parking space the car took off over the curb. All four wheels jumped the curb. We're going to trade it in for a 2010 Honda Civic LX tonight. I will never buy Toyota again. It's a shame I thought they were supposed to be the best (quality and reliability). Back to Honda.
26.01.2010 | 23:43 GMT
I have a 2007 Toyota Camry and I am experining a slight problem with the accelerator sticking. It only happens occasionally where it clanks when I let off of the accelerator. After the recall went out last week. I confirmed my car is on the list. I called the 800 number stayed on hold forever then a recording tells me if I experience the problem to pull over and call for service. So I called Toyota of Garden Grove where I purchased the vehicle and spoke with Vinney in the service dept. I wanted to find out how long it would take to replace the accelerated and when should I bring it in. IT IS A RECALL RIGHT THAT USUALLY MEANS THEY WILL PAY TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM????? He said that they are not fixing anything. He told me that the accelerator was not sticking and they don't stick and that it had something to do with the brakes that is connected to the assembly which is connected to the accelerator. Again he repeated they are not fixing anything. I could bring it in and they could take a look at it. But he was sure that it is not the accelerator sticking...... Me take it to their service dept for a $400 plus bill??? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!Everytime I go there I get screwed. I guess I'll just have to be another Toyota owner statistic.
27.01.2010 | 02:10 GMT
I had a 2006 Avalon and the accelerator stuck on me and i tried every thing they said to do and it did not work for me. I when about 10 miles before it unstuck. That was the most scaries time of my life. The next they i tolk the car to Toyota services in Houston Texas and they keep my car for Two days. They said they couldn't fine anything wrong with the car. This was back in 2006 before the death of the people in California. I can't help but think if they would have look in to this more they could have saved those people life. After that I traded the car off, i only had the car about two months.
27.01.2010 | 02:52 GMT
OOPS, Toyota screwed the pooch on this one. Toyota needs to design a new fly by wire crap to prevent this, so it will take quite some time. I am wondering will all the owners just have to 'grin and bear it'? That would be sucks. I have 2004 4 runner so I HOPE that it has a REAL DOWN TO EARTH MECHANICAL throttle linkage. This 'fly by wire' crap needs to NOT BE IN CARS. You need like SIX NINE reliability for this just like airplanes.
27.01.2010 | 03:18 GMT
I am so disappointed in Toyota. First the floor mats blocking the brake not the accelerator is getting stuck. What next for get to put the air bags in??? Screw Toyota. I am going with Ford, Chevy, or Subaru.
27.01.2010 | 08:59 GMT
This is bull@&$t. That Toyota would lay blame on the consumer and not look at the problem at hand. I don't own a Toyota but both my partents do. I will never buy a Toyota due to the fact that that little chineese mutha trucker won't look at the problem and just lay blame on the consumer. But you can bet that if anything did ever happen to one of my partents becuase of there Toyota u bet your but that Toyota us going to answer for it.
27.01.2010 | 17:27 GMT
Unfortunately, toyota are part owner of subaru now too. Never drove a toyota before in my life, and never will. Have pleasant experience with hyundai, ford, audi and subaru. Avoid GM.
27.01.2010 | 18:38 GMT
Seems Toyota has been taking 'transparency' lessons from our govt. At least Toyota should officially publish a "procedure" for handling their product under emergency conditions (such as a malfunctiong throttle) and let folks know what the problem is, how a failure would manifest itself and, how long they expect it to take to engineer a solution - their one week window seems unrealistic. Their best bet would probably be to regurgitate alternative designs reviewed during product development. The solution probably already exists though manufacturing lead times in the volumes required could be considerable.
28.01.2010 | 04:13 GMT
I have a stuck gas pedal issue in my 2000 Lexus RX 300. Its not covered by this recall but is experiancing the same issue occasionally. Usually from a stop. The gas pedal becomes rock hard and will not depress unless you give it a bit of a kick. Then once its down it can stick a bit but another tap will release it. This is rare but does happen with these vehicles.
as for the advise on this page about putting a car in neutral if teh gas pedal is stuck ... BS .. never ever put a car in neutral if the gas pedal is stuck.. you will destroy your engine, I have seen it happen first hand. Brakes will stop a car even if the gas pedal is stuck. Been there done that too. Hit the brakes hard and steer to the curb. Once there shut it off.
28.01.2010 | 14:57 GMT
Agree with burto about damage to the engine if you put it in neutral. But if your flying at 90mph, with your family, you best believe I wouldn't care about my engine getting ruined.
28.01.2010 | 16:34 GMT
Most modern cars can not be over-reved if shifted into neutral with a stuck gas pedal because the computer prevents that from happening. If in dought about your vehicle, test it while in park. If you can rev it past the red line, your car is not modern enough.
I too would like to know more about the CHP officer who couldn'd figure out to shift to neutral in his Lexus. That should be such a simple solution for a profesional driver. I wonder if he had some kind of medical condition that incapacitated him.
29.01.2010 | 12:02 GMT
Too bad for toyota. Iwas about to go for a Camry, but am going for honda civic.
29.01.2010 | 18:37 GMT
I used to have 2007 Camry GLX in Dubai for two years, bought it as brand new, but each time I accelerate to max it stuck for at least a 2 seconds, and it made me really scared, and that wasnt the only fault, the Auto Gear changing as well, I've reported that to Toyota dealer AL FUTTAIM Group since 1000KM, and they said no worries at all!!!! my car was manifactured in Australia.
Toyota is not solid like before at all, it was really bad experience
31.01.2010 | 01:45 GMT
I noticed every comment focuses on what one would do if driving or riding IN a Toyota, but I cannot get the most frightening aspect out of my mind --- that my wife, daughter or sons would suffer a hellish death or debilitation at the hands of the driver of a stuck Toyota or Lexus accelerator, while they were simply walking to or from their own car in a shopping mall parking lot? or what about innocent children on a sidewalk??? What about a stopped school bus? A bicyclist smashed and pinned against a tree?
What about elderly Toyota drivers who may not have the ability to react quickly? Remember the street festival two years ago in California where a driver plowed into a crowd killing several people? It makes you sit up and connect the dots.... and finally I wonder if I should put a new bumper sticker on the back of my Ford Sport Trac that reads, "Driving a Toyota? PLEASE STAY BACK 200 YARDS FROM MY VEHICLE!!"
31.01.2010 | 04:52 GMT
I just bought my second Camry, a 2007, after being hit twice in my previous Camry. I believed they are safe, now I wonder after I read so much. If I drive slowly, does that prevent things like this from happening? Would the accelerator still stick at a slow speed? The rug is far away from the gas pedal....so is it a rug problem or a gas pedal problem?
31.01.2010 | 23:33 GMT
people need to take responsibility for their actions, almost every car manufacturer uses drive by wire throttles, yes Toyota has some fixing to do but the consumer needs to know how to drive, the vehicle does not do everything, everyone is quick to bash Toyota over this recall, yet GM has the same pedal in some of their vehicles, it is not a fail at once issue, it fails over time, if you do not know what to do in a situation like this, maybe you should have you license revoked, everyone just wants to blame their crappy driving on someone else, Toyota has strived to become one of the top dealers, they never asked for a bailout, if you don't know not to stack floormats, can't tell that it will have an issue with height, don't get behind the wheel, take blame for you actions, you say Toyota is passing the blame, they have stopped production, made the recall and are fixing the problem, if you want to bash Toyota, maybe you should look at your own driving issues first
01.02.2010 | 06:23 GMT
We almost purchased a 2008 Camry last year. We weren't going to drive the car but decided it would be worth trying it out. The salesman insisted we drive it - luckily he did. On the test drive, the accelerator pedal stuck TWICE - once while I drove it and once while my wife was driving. The salesman insisted that it was a "pre-delivery" glitch that would be taken care of but I didn't fall for it. We bought a 2008 Accord instead and have been happy with it. I just wish Toyota didn't use the floor mat thing as a tactic to make people think it was simply the floor mat causing the problem.
01.02.2010 | 21:29 GMT
I have an idea for dealing with an accelerator pedal that might stick. Tie a piece of stout cord (blind or curtain cord, for example) to the accelerator pedal. Make sure to tie it so it won't slip off, maybe both in front of and behind the rod that goes down into the floor. Tie the other end to something on the dashboard or steering column within your reach (_not_ the steering wheel). Leave some slack, but not a droopy amount. Make sure the cord can't get tangled in something important that could make it unsafe. Make sure it can't for instance be snared by your footwear. If the pedal doesn't want to come up, and you're headed into danger, yank firmly on the cord to dislodge it. This should work even if the pedal has to lift up the floor mat. Then pull over safely and call for a tow. Preferably to a dealer, who should be only too happy to rush a real repair job. CAUTION: test this sitting in your garage in neutral, don't find out whether or not it works while you're doing a hundred on the freeway in rush hour! DISCLOSURE: I'm no expert, just a driver and not even of a Toyota. This is all just a suggestion, and it's up to you and at your own risk if you do anything with it.
01.02.2010 | 23:39 GMT
Even though most of the Toyota models can be found in Europe as well, I have not been able to find reports of a single accident in Europe caused by the accelerator problem.
This makes me think that even though the problem with the cars most likely exists, the drivers are to blame more than Toyota in the accidents that occurred in the US and that the problem is not worse than that an alert driver should be able to manage the situation.
02.02.2010 | 02:24 GMT
They panicked under the situation of a stuck gas pedal. They could've put the gear into neutral. That would've prevented the unlikely death. Although this gas pedal should be fixed but many people don't even realize that there is the safety alternative of putting in neutral gear. Situations similar to this should be taught in driving school.
02.02.2010 | 16:19 GMT
Toyota and other Japanese manufacturers are all about saving face. It is a cultural thing. American manufacturers will own up to a problem much sooner than their foreign counterparts. Ford and GM have had many recalls. More than the Japanese manufacturers. Many people take this information to mean that Ford and GM don't build as much quality into their cars as Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Subaru.
On the contrary. They just react sooner than the Japanese. This is a GOOD thing.
Buy a FORD or a CHEVY. You will be safer. And even the quality is better.
02.02.2010 | 18:09 GMT
Why all are of you bashing on Toyota... They made a mistake and there are recals... they ARE owning up to the mistake... EVERY SINGLE CAR MANUFACTURERS HAVE RECALS AND MAKE MISTAKES! All of you who want to bash other people get over yourself. There are people who have died with these mistakes yes... this is sad but there is no reason to point fingers NOW... they are fixing the mistake a quickly as possible... I wouldnt not buy a Ford or Chevy to save my life... I would depend on a Kia before I drive an american made car again. and half of american did not even know about this until they decided it and the 911 call should be released 6 months later. Let their family rest and not have to hear this all over the news day after day 6 months later!! Seriously people!!
02.02.2010 | 22:41 GMT
The Lexus has a "fly by wire" accelerator pedal, "fly by wire" transmission actuator, and a push button ignition. All three devices are fed into a computer for processing. When the accelerator pedal is pushed a signal is sent to the computer to control the throttle. When the transmission lever is changed a signal is sent to the computer to change gears. There is no direct mechanical connection between the accelerator and the throttle. There is no direct connection between the transmission lever and the transmission.
Does anyone think that maybe the problem is that the computer is "hung" and is not processing input from any of the input signals? I don't believe that an experienced CHP officer would not try to shift to neutral or to turn the engine off - there was plenty of time to try.
03.02.2010 | 23:36 GMT
Fly-by-wire, cry-by-wire, die by wire. It's all software based-software today resembles the illiteracies of the past. First it must work EVERYTIME. No problem -but no guarantee. And it is required to perform communication functions. After 30 years experience myself,even the simplest communication can go astray.And you can test it a million times to perfection. But the day you use it, it could fail immediately. What it boils down to is YOU NEVER KNOW when or if or how. A bit like a slot machine. What do carmakers know about realtime communications software? Their beat is excellence in mechanical engineeering- A mechanical part can be tested to failure. Software can be tested forever and still fail unexpectedly. Ask my brother-3 attempts to accelerate from a traffic stop in an e-class merc-no response. Salesman conclusion: software. No sale-and if you get an UPGRADE you can be sure the whole cycle starts all over again. Even as a millionaire, I NEVER bought new death by wire and death by menu function plus expresso coffee interior cars
04.02.2010 | 00:33 GMT
I agree the deaths of the car occupants was terrible. Advice I have seen in this posting of putting the car in neutral, applying the brakes, etc. is also very good and is something EVERY driver should think about just in case this should happen to them in any car. I have not been able to find out however, just how many accelerators have stuck so far, 1,2 100, 1000? I would like to see the actual figures to see how severe a problem this is. I know before someone gets on me, a single injury or death is NOT acceptable! Knowing how many at least lets me know the odds of a failure because my family also rides in these vehicles. I will keep driving Toyota and Lexus products because a sub standard GM, Chrysler vehicle will never sit in my garage again. Toyota is doing an acceptable job in the recall. I really don't know what else they can do besides testing the car's computer and its code.
04.02.2010 | 03:16 GMT
Was driving my 2002 avalon to work this morning and it started having the acceleration issues. I didnt even have to step on the gas after stopping at a stop sign and got to 40 mph no problem. When I finally got to work and put in in part the engine revved up and down like I was a teenager stepping on the gas pedal getting ready to race. It was not stuck in the down position or under the floor mat . Definitely seems electronic to me. Now Toyota is charging $95 just to diagnose issue as it is outside of the years recalled. I came across a report that they are investigating as far back as my year now though. http://www.comcast.net/video/uproar-over-car-pedals/1404058099 Hoping they expand this thing and get it fixed! Do not trust it now!
04.02.2010 | 14:43 GMT
TOYOTA DRIVING MACHINES!!!!!!!!! ROBOTIC DRIVING MACHINES!!!!!!!! I like bagels.
05.02.2010 | 02:07 GMT
In response to Me Too, I say Me Too - the same thing happened to me. Except I did not get hurt and mine was a Honda Accord. It shot off like a rocket - I had my foot on the brake pulling into a parking spot. The car was a total loss.
07.02.2010 | 08:37 GMT
Now that all of us Americans are essentially share holders in GM, I can't imagine why you wouldn't buy American anyhow. As for me I'll always be a ford truck man.
08.02.2010 | 15:00 GMT
2 friends died in Brazil in a 2009 Corolla by this problem..
09.02.2010 | 03:48 GMT
Many people, including myself unfortunately, rushed to say "why didn't he put the car in Neutral??"
I've been seeing growing comments from various supposed authorities speculating that maybe the car could not be shifted into Neutral under those conditions.
He was a Highway Patrolman who, according to the 911 call, was not hysterically screaming or flipped out. I'm betting he tried to shift the car to Neutral, or tried to turn it off. Its unfortunate that he was too distracted to say "The car won't change gear or turn off" but maybe he assumed that would be obvious to his associates.
For my part I cannot understand why the 911 dispatcher was NOT yelling "take the car out of gear and turn it off, use the emergency brake!!", he might have responded to that by saying "I can't!"
So many innocent drivers have already been wrongfully blamed when it was a malfunctioning car at fault, even in this horrible case with a seasoned Highway Patrolman, people react by blaming him instead of Toyota.
Consumers are too easily brainwashed.
Want proof? Toyota's response to this rolling trainwreck (carwreck?) of a situation is to plan a major new ad campaign. They plan to win back our trust with a tsunami of media advertisements. What does that tell you.
And its not just the company, the more I read about this the more disgusted I am with the NHTSA and our politicians. Corporations always come first.
PS: I am a Toyota owner of many years. I think this will be the last time.
12.02.2010 | 21:04 GMT
I own a 2010 Camry, I love the car but my wife is now scared to drive it.
This does not make sense to me, is it a problem with a "Sticking" accelerator? Or is it a problem with the accelorator continuring to accelerate on it own? Those are 2 different issues, if its the latter of the two, you can not convince that the "repairs" they are doing now will have any effect on it. Is there a webstie I can go to read about all the reported incidents individually?
15.02.2010 | 21:12 GMT
In response to HarryHotspur's comment essentially that the brakes will overcome the accelerator - in my experience this is not true. I have an affected Camry and had the stuck accelerator experience about 6 months ago. I don't know whether it was caused by an aftermarket all-weather floor mat catching and holding the pedal or if it was from the newly recalled pedal assembly itself. What I do know is that I pulled on to 2 lane highway and floored the accelerator to get up to speed (not how I typically drive but it was a busy rush hour morning and I needed to get into the flow of traffic). I accelerated up to 40 or 50 and released the pressure on the accelerator - only I kept accelerating. I don't recall whether the accelerator stayed down or not - I assume it did. Then I applied the brake normally. Nothing. Then I applied full pressure to the brakes - literally raising my butt off of my seat. Still nothing. Finally - after another moment - the accelerator released and I started abruptly slowing down.
FWIW, I have a 6 cylinder which I believe has 268 horsepower. From my experience - full throttle in that car at 50 will not be overcome regardless of the brakes being applied.
For more evidence, read the article we're all commenting on. I'm sure the driver was trying to stop the car with the brakes to no avail.
16.02.2010 | 21:36 GMT
I have a BMW M3 with 420 horsepower. The throttle is fully drive-by-wire and it is equipped with ABS and vehicle stability control. Loads of computers all working in harmony. Applying the brakes at full throttle will stop the vehicle. It is also a MANUAL transmission.
From what has been said above, it seems to me that there is an issue when the throttle and brakes are applied at the same time. Perhaps it's a drive-by-wire software issue that can't handle a simultaneous request for more torque (via stuck throttle) and a request to brake the vehicle.
22.02.2010 | 22:46 GMT
Anyone have a Lexus hybrid or Prius that can verify not being able to shift into neutral when under full acceleration?
22.02.2010 | 22:49 GMT
here are instructions from Toyota... doesn't sound promising when a car is getting away from you at highway speeds.
"If unable to put the vehicle in Neutral, turn the engine OFF. This will not cause loss of steering or braking control, but the power assist to these systems will be lost.
o If the vehicle is equipped with an Engine Start/Stop button, firmly and steadily push the button for at least three seconds to turn off the engine."
23.02.2010 | 23:43 GMT
I don't understand why they don't tell people to put the car in neutral. Don't people know how to drive anymore?
25.02.2010 | 02:11 GMT
It would be nice to know how much of the 6 million car accidents are researched to find if the cause is a production defect.
Would be nice to have the numbers of these accidents by company, so we all could tell if we are dealing with facts or opinions.
Any human lose is irreparable, but zero is a huge number to expect, but even so, should be seek as if possible.
Auto Accident Facts:
There were an estimated 6,420,000 cars involved in accidents in the US in 2005. The cost of these accidents exceeds 230+ Billion dollars. There were about 2.9 million injury cases and 42,636 car accident deaths. An average of 115 persons die each day in motor vehicle crashes in the United States -- one every 13 minutes. According to the World Health Organization about 3000 people die in crashes each day worldwide.
How many of those were Toyotas, and how many of these were caused by production defects.
Why others auto makers don't have news like those, better quality or crisis management techniques?
Executives on GM, Ford or others know something about some of their deadly products that are hidding from public opinion? That happened how many times in the last 100 years? Who is involved in silencing those news?
Hope that USA stops beating or prosecuting people that want to be honest, transparent and take responsability by their acts, or otherwise will be incentiving organizations that on the dark evaporates billions of workers dollars, or play non sustainable, responsable bussinesses.
Something is broken in USA.
Juan.
25.02.2010 | 03:30 GMT
PS: I guess its possible that some cars brakes are strong enough to stop a car at full throttle, depending on brake caliper size versus horsepower BUT if a car is already moving at high speed AND the throttle is substantially engaged in pushing the car forward AND the driver has been applying the brakes for a period of time, the rotors get red hot, the calipers get red hot, the brake fluid (even DOT4) WILL boil. No brakes after that.
25.02.2010 | 18:34 GMT
Let's be absolutely clear about this. The tragedy would have been avoided by simply slipping the auto box into neutral (I am sure it was an auto because it happened in the US) but same applies to a manual gearbox of course. No need to shut down the ignition, but that could have been done as well, steering would certainly have become very heavy and the brakes would be like pushing against concrete, but it would have stopped.
Yet the driver, or passenger, had time to make a phone call, bizarre! Previous writer was correct about just plain braking hard; the car would stop whatever the accelerator was doing. Strange accident to say the least.
08.03.2010 | 02:44 GMT
As a Mechanical Engineer, it is my feeling that there should always be a direct, mechanical linkage between everything that has to do with controlling the vehicle and the driver. Ask Boeing Pilots about Airbus. They have had similar problems.
I suspect this "computer interface" crap has much to do with reducing assembly costs, or marketing, probably both.
09.03.2010 | 04:34 GMT
When an engine has a wide open throttle The "Vacuum Assisted" brake booster That is between your foot & the brake master cylinder, What gives the power assist for this feature; Don't work when an engine is wide open throttle, as their is no vacuum, to store in the brake booster assembly.You can try this on any car. Just hop in yours with the key off; pump the peddle a couple times & the reserve is gone. The reserve is restored by the intake manifolds vacuum at an engine idle... Which restores basically 3 assisted presses in it's reservoir with the engine off..... Or @ full throttle..
09.03.2010 | 14:30 GMT
European in US: My guess that the reason that we haven't heard about any accidents involving Toyotas with stuck accelerators in Europe is because most cars in Europe are standard shift. Accelerator stuck? Just push the clutch and take the car out of gear. No more acceleration.
09.03.2010 | 15:43 GMT
Shifting into neutral is the best way to handle a stuck accelerator. While the potential to lose power steering (with some cars using electric motors now) and power brakes, the engine will simply shut down when it hits the rev limiter. I know this from experience as a young man driving a '92 Cutlass when I had cruise control engaged and was reaching down for a CD case and knocked my car into neutral. The engine revved to keep the car at 65 mph (okay, I actually set the cruise at 70mph) but couldn't due to the car being in neutral. It redlined, shut off and I pulled over to the side of the road thinking that I ruined the car. I started it and drove off. My sister is now driving the car fourteen years later.
09.03.2010 | 18:30 GMT
Just a note for anyone suggesting people should just turn the car off--most of these newer models have push button start--not a physical key. The push button ingnition will not allow the vehicle to shut down unless the car is in "Park."
10.03.2010 | 18:31 GMT
http://www.toyota.com/recall/pedal.html
Here's Toyota's recommendation for dealing with an emergency:
If you have noticed that your accelerator pedal is hard to depress, slow to return or is not smooth during operation, the vehicle should be stopped at the nearest safe location, the engine shut off and a Toyota dealer contacted for assistance.
What if you experience a sticking accelerator pedal while driving?
Each circumstance may vary, and drivers must use their best judgment, but Toyota recommends taking one of the following actions:
If you need to stop immediately, the vehicle can be controlled by stepping on the brake pedal with both feet using firm and steady pressure. Do not pump the brake pedal as it will deplete the vacuum utilized for the power brake assist.
Shift the transmission gear selector to the Neutral (N) position and use the brakes to make a controlled stop at the side of the road and turn off the engine.
If unable to put the vehicle in Neutral, turn the engine OFF. This will not cause loss of steering or braking control, but the power assist to these systems will be lost.
If the vehicle is equipped with an Engine Start/Stop button, firmly and steadily push the button for at least three seconds to turn off the engine. Do NOT tap the Engine Start/Stop button.
If the vehicle is equipped with a conventional key ignition, turn the ignition key to the ACC position to turn off the engine. Do NOT remove the key from the ignition as this will lock the steering wheel.
11.03.2010 | 18:54 GMT
Listen up I am tired of hearing all about this and I for one do not understand why Toyota and any car manufacturer will not just stop playing around with the "What Ifs" that is causing the problem and go back the trusted design of direct linkage for the throttle (Gas Pedal) If automobile manufacturers think that aggressive cost cutting and this is what is is all about, think that this is an improvement and cost savings to manufacturing a car they are dead wrong from the get go. Now laws are being drawn up to make automobile manufacturers with "Electronic" gas pedals have a backup system or auto engine shut off system if the brakes are hit hard for a specified amount of time. WRONG!!!
Case in point. The costs the manufacturers will have to absorb to design and install in each new car will far outweigh the cost savings they were obtaining with the electronic pedals. Have you ever been sitting at a red light and just pushed down the pedal hard maybe to check your brakes or even when your bleeding the brakes when doing a brake job. Your telling me that you?re going to pay more now for something and over engineer a simple fix which is just go back to the damm cable direct connection as before which worked flawless and now instead of going back to a tried and trusted mechanical gas pedal, we are trying to fix a problem with adding yet more electronics that raise costs, maintenance and more possible failures.
The day the push on the automobile customer "Steering By Wire" or "Braking By Wire" will be a nightmare for those who drive on the roads in the future. Replacing a tried and proven component with a modern electronic device in this case is not cost effective or smart. It has cost lives, lawsuits, and a waste of taxpayer?s monies.
Remember the old adage "If it ain?t broke" don't fix it" Why are we trying to re-invent the wheel when the round one works just fine! You all do not get it. It?s not about fixing the problem with another fix or backup system to cut off your engine when you can just go back to what we had before. Com on you thing this is all going to be provided for free from the automobile companies in the final price to you. Ha! I driven cars well into 15 years and none of them needed any gas pedal replacement or throttle cable replacement.
Cars are not muti-million dollar aircraft that have state of the art electronics and forego inspections to insure the all the equipment is running within its desired parameters.
Fear the day when many out there (and they are) that continue drive and keep automobiles with faulty electronics and start driving them in to the 10 year mark. Allot will become hand-me-down cars for new drivers in ones family and they being inexperienced along with the older generations will not react fast enough to avoid a mishap that is solely attributable to Electronics failure by wear and tear.
I cannot get the point more clear than why don't these car engineers and cost cutting vultures just realized that what they had before works and go back to it. Now by trying to make a greedy profit and save costs, they are now losing millions in sales and millions in law suits.
I just dare anybody here to argue this with me because I am right as rain and damm Right on this.
15.03.2010 | 04:07 GMT
OK...I for one am amazed that the general public doesn't have enough mechanical engineering knowldege to ask the most basic of questions about what's happening to these cars. Used to be the average man knew how his car was bolted together. Granted, cars are more sophisticated now, but some things haven't changed that much.
1. I don't know of a car that can overpower it's brakes. Period. So...
2. Can somebody explain to me how the accelerator and the brakes are mechanically (they're not) or electrically connected (ok..with anti-lock brakes, maybe)
3. What's the likelihood that there's a software or electrical problem with both the accelerator AND the anti-lock brakes? Zippo! That's what.
Therefore, while evidence shows there's enough reason to look into the accelerator, the actions taken after such an incident are most likely caused by drivers panicing and not taking appropriate actions...stomping on the brakes, putting the car in neutral, or just shutting the thing off.
Ok..now somebody prove me wrong...not with more ancedotal stories, but with some engineering facts!
21.03.2010 | 01:04 GMT
I had a 2000 Toyota Camry, and my gas pedal stuck and my brakes would not engage. This happened on the interstate and I was traveling over 70mph. It was very scary. I fully believe everyone's stories. This is not a joke its really happening. I took it to a Toyota dealership after the incident and the told me it was a "brake button" that needed to be fixed. No real explanation just a bill. I went on with my life after this, but after all these stories cahe me out, I was suprised to find out I was not the only one.
14.05.2010 | 05:55 GMT
This is the best/ cheapest and effective solution I will give for free to all the car componies/ manufactures out there to fit a DEAD MAN SWITCH on the acc pedal .
Ask your auto sparkies!!!
Secondly all those who think this fault is a big problem on any vehicle.
Hand over your drivers licence and take on public transport or start cycling as then all the d....kh##ds will be of the road ..
20.06.2010 | 00:34 GMT
stopping the car while it is at WOT(wide open throttle) is very difficult due to the throttle plates being open so far...the loss of engine vacuum will make it impossible to stop after pumping the brakes as a few ownerss have...you drain the reserve and thats it..either shift into neutral...or dont get off the brake pedal...anoother reason i drive a standar trans american car with an actual throttle cable...happy motoring